Master the Art of Conversation: Build Real Connections in a Digital World
In this episode, Pete George and Don Lachance discuss the art of conversation and building meaningful connections in a digital age. They explore how communication has evolved, the impact of technology on conversations, the importance of vulnerability and authenticity, and practical tips for fostering deeper connections. The conversation emphasizes the need for active listening and the courage to be vulnerable to create genuine interactions.
Transcript
Hi and welcome to this episode of hey Georgie.
Speaker A:Where we have a special guest, as you can see on the screen, commonly known as the Cat, but his real name is Donald Achence.
Speaker A:He's been a friend of mine for more than a decade now, I think it is.
Speaker A:And today we're going to talk about a topic that's quite real and that's the art of conversation, building meaningful connections in a digital age.
Speaker A:Welcome, Don.
Speaker B:Peter, thanks for having me.
Speaker B:I really enjoy when we get to have these conversations.
Speaker B:It's always a joy for me.
Speaker B:And yeah, it's been over a decade, mate.
Speaker B:Do you believe it?
Speaker A:No, it's.
Speaker A:Time flies when we're having fun.
Speaker A:But yeah, it's, it's a shock when these sort of things happen and then you get scary when you start to push 60 and things like that.
Speaker A:But it's, yeah, no, it's been a great relationship and one that I cherish and rely on to get through life basically.
Speaker A:So I appreciate it.
Speaker A:So it's funny how Covid changed the way that we communicate and now I just think and be interesting to get your thoughts on it, that we've actually lost the real skill of communicating and having conversations since then.
Speaker A:And that's what I'd like to get right into today and making those connections back again that become more meaningful and a little bit more deeper because a lot of people are struggling with circumstance around the world, financially and health wise.
Speaker A:There's a whole grammar things, especially from my perspective with the mental illness side of things.
Speaker A:So what are your thoughts on that?
Speaker B:I, I, I, I think healthy communication has always been something that's been strained.
Speaker B:Covid really just amplified and brought it to a place where it's undeniable now just how limited we are in our skill sets when it comes to healthy conversation.
Speaker B:You know, there's two sides to that.
Speaker B:There's the speaking side.
Speaker B:But in order for you to really be able to speak and address things effectively or efficiently, the important part of conversation is the ability to listen.
Speaker B:And that's a thing that just seems elusive for a lot of people, like the reason why they listen.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And that's one of the kills that you have.
Speaker A:And I think that's where you get the skilled listener tag from.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And it's taught me a lot over time, which is, which is great.
Speaker A:But why do you think meaningful conversations matter?
Speaker B:Well, I think they're important because, well, a couple of things.
Speaker B:We've all got things that tie us up.
Speaker B:We've all got things that keep us trapped and how do we get that out into the open?
Speaker B:Who do we trust?
Speaker B:How do we share those things?
Speaker B:And the flip side of that is so many people have so much value to add but don't know how to go about sharing it.
Speaker B:So I think often when entering into conversation, healthy conversation with the right parties and the right people involved, both of those needs, both of those desires have a tendency to get met.
Speaker B:Does that make sense?
Speaker A:Yeah, it does.
Speaker A:And I suppose in a way that's where the hey Georgie evolved to, from all the indentations of what I've tried to develop.
Speaker A:And hey Georgie is trying to get that connection through conversation going again.
Speaker A:That's why it's the tagline, it's all in the conversation.
Speaker A:Because funnily enough, everyone has something to give and everybody has a skill that they can share.
Speaker A:And this is what I want to do with my platform.
Speaker A:I think you're doing something similar in a different area area, but we all have something to share with one another.
Speaker A:But I think that art has been lost to share.
Speaker A:I think these things don't help, but they can build a good connection for conversation if used right.
Speaker A:So like for, for us now, you know, it's, it's.
Speaker A:What time is it here?
Speaker A:It's, I don't know, 6, 7 o'clock in the morning and it's likely after.
Speaker B:7, 4, 27 in the afternoon.
Speaker B:For me.
Speaker B:We're on opposite sides of the world.
Speaker A:Yeah, we're on the other side of the world.
Speaker A:We can have, have a deep, meaningful conversation.
Speaker A:Like, even if one of us is stuck with something, you don't just text.
Speaker A:Because I just feel that.
Speaker A:And funnily enough, we had that situation the other day when I just left off two words off something and you saw it from a different light.
Speaker A:And then when I read what I'd put down, I had to come back and apologize.
Speaker A:This way, face to face, you can connect a lot better than you can with a phone.
Speaker A:And that's, that's what I see.
Speaker A:And if someone's got something to give, that's where they'll get the connection.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like it, it's why I, I really appreciate when other, other people have a desire to raise awareness around the complexities that surround healthy conversation, around the complexities that are introduced into our lives and, you know, with technology, although the flip side of that is the beauty in some of the technology it's developed that allows us to communicate, like in really cool ways on this, these electronic platforms.
Speaker B:So here I am in conversation with you and this provides me with the luxury of being able to see reactions and read body language and steep clarity in real time.
Speaker B:You know, I love the fact that you mentioned the text based message that you sent me and me interpreting it the way I did, it was really clear for me.
Speaker B:And then as I kind of shared a little bit of what I was experiencing you with that looked at what you had sent me.
Speaker B:But, but how often do exchanges, I won't call them conversations because they're really nothing more than digital exchanges.
Speaker B:You know, how often did they leave either one or both parties in that attempt at exchanging ideas?
Speaker B:I won't call a conversation, leave both parties feeling disappointed, mystified, confused, angry in some cases when there was no real intense, like something was misinterpreted.
Speaker B:And conversation allows us to seek that clarity in real time.
Speaker B:And you know, you get the value of intonation, you get the value of being able to read facial expressions and stuff like that on, on, on these platforms.
Speaker B:So you know, I'm, I'm grateful, I'm grateful for these.
Speaker B:But I love the element of conversation, whether it be on phone that people don't pick up.
Speaker B:Like they use their phone as isolation tanks.
Speaker B:Like yeah, it's unprotected from the world and like Covid was really cruel on that.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like by forced a lot of people into isolation and the challenges that surfaced as a result of that, we're experiencing just incredible numbers and statistics now.
Speaker B:When you look at the mental health and issues and you look at, you know, just the pain that the world is in right now in regards to physical, emotional and that can often spill into financial stuff, you know, unless you're actively seeking to speak a message to an audience, it's difficult because everybody's in these different silos and unfair as to how to break out, you know.
Speaker B:So kudos to you Pete, for putting things like this together.
Speaker B:You know, and I, I know I'm not going to be your only guest.
Speaker B:You're always seeking expertise on one front or another to bring to your community, right?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And that's the, that's the big thing, you know, like the, the reliance on technology today is huge, from little kids all the way up to mature people.
Speaker A:But being a Gen Xer, we grew up in the, in the period where technology was just coming in and we used it as a tool, not as a lifeline.
Speaker A:And that's what I want to try to get back to where we having meaningful conversations and not digital interactions.
Speaker A:And what I mean by that is using Facebook or Messenger or what else is there?
Speaker A:WhatsApp and, and stuff like that, they're just a means to get an answer, not a, that means to question.
Speaker A:And with the severity of mental illness issues right across the board, the only way you're going to know the person is telling the truth or hiding is doing what we're doing now.
Speaker A:And because it's easy to have someone on the phone via a text or a message or whatever saying, are you okay?
Speaker A:But yeah, they're going to respond, yeah, I'm fine.
Speaker A:So, yeah, I'm fine.
Speaker A:The common line, I used to have that every five minutes.
Speaker A:How are you going?
Speaker A:Oh, yeah, good.
Speaker A:And little did I know I was ready to take it to the, the full extent.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:But yeah, it's one of the things is, and because I don't think you'll, you'll shy away from it.
Speaker A:Technology isn't one of your solid strengths.
Speaker A:But, um, from your perspective, how do you think we can overcome that digital barrier for connection?
Speaker B:Well, before I even attempt to answer that, and no, you're correct.
Speaker B:Like, you know, technology often stumps me the same way math does.
Speaker B:And maybe that's because technology is typically based on binary code, ones and zeros.
Speaker B:So there's numbers involved.
Speaker B:You know, I'd like to take some comfort in that a lot.
Speaker B:But you know, let me just see a little bit of clarity when, when you say, like, you know, to move away from digital technology in, in order to host or, or to take part in meaningful conversation.
Speaker B:Because you mentioned genetics.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And the reliance on some of that.
Speaker B:What's a different way you could ask me that question.
Speaker A:How do you see that we could use the technology to benefit a conversation?
Speaker B:Well, let's look at a couple of platforms.
Speaker B:I'm not a real big LinkedIn user.
Speaker B:I leverage Facebook because it's just so populated.
Speaker B:And my desire is to constantly want to be connecting with people and starting conversations and, you know, with an audience.
Speaker B:The size that Facebook holds, there's always the ability for me to be able to do that, to connect with people.
Speaker B:But what I love to do the minute I begin an exchange via text is to say, look, I think it would serve us both best if we hopped on either like the Facebook messenger video feature that's there or on WhatsApp.
Speaker B:They've got that same video feature.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, they've got that on those platforms and I want that and I love that because this delivers just a real great way to connect.
Speaker B:Because if you take a step back and think about our initial communication, our initial contact was text based and we moved it to a video based as quickly as we could.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:But really kind of just begins to deepen that connection and the communication.
Speaker B:So, you know, I've even gone so far, like I, I do a lot of work walking people through emotional turmoil and it's important that I get visual feeds and you know, just to be sensitive to those things because I can see when I ask a question that's painful, I'll see a reaction on the face despite somebody saying, oh, I'm fine.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like I get a much different read physically that allows me to probe at a deeper level.
Speaker B:And so in that it draws out the meaningful elements of what true conversation is about.
Speaker B:Because now it's an exchange now, now I can listen.
Speaker B:And I'm listening with my eyes, I'm listening with my ears, I'm listening with all I'm about.
Speaker B:So here we are in this digital realm where there's this exchange of thought that takes place often, where all meaning of conversation has a much better chance of being lost than it does being understood.
Speaker B:And so I've kind of even coined a phrase, you know, that I love these telly to belly applications.
Speaker B:You know, most meaningful conversation took place belly to belly with people.
Speaker B:But this digital realm provided us with these platforms that can provide us with the same kind of clarity and the same kind of value that conversations should hold because we do get all of those reads.
Speaker B:It becomes a very sensory thing.
Speaker A:Yeah, and that's the, that's the big thing, you know, like if you go right back, like even through 70s, 80s, 60s, 50s, you know, we used to.
Speaker A:The pubs here in Australia used to close at six, but the blokes would go to the pubs after work, they'd wind down, finish at the pub at 6, jump on the train, go home, and they were, they've got everything they needed to get off their chest at the pub with their mates, got home and engaged with the family.
Speaker A:And the family knew how the family was through conversation.
Speaker A:Whereas I think not all families, but just from observations when you're out and about, that that's been lost as well.
Speaker A:And that's the bit that I don't get as a Gen Xer that how you can just hand the voices to kids and let them live on it.
Speaker A:That's the bit that I don't get because if you don't teach the kids how to have a meaningful and fulfilled conversation with someone, you know, life doesn't look too good down the, down the track in, in generations.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But I, I think there are a lot of mitigating circumstances that have created that void.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:We, we look at, you know, you, you want to take it back to the 60s and, and the 50s where family units were much different at the time.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like they would sit and have dinner together.
Speaker B:The mother was typically home in the 50s and the father was out working and he'd get home from work and they'd sit and have family dinner.
Speaker B:And then it would be like a family activity.
Speaker B:And you know, then the world evolves and things change.
Speaker B:And all of a sudden there, there's a requirement for both parents to be working to make ends meet than to have things like that.
Speaker B:So now what happens to the kids?
Speaker B:They're left to their own vices.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And you know, as technology evolved, it just became easier and easier.
Speaker B:You know, when, when I look at like technology has taken the place of food in a lot of instances.
Speaker B:And let me make the connection there.
Speaker A:Go ahead.
Speaker B:As kids, when we're experiencing angst and we want to take that to our parents and we want to talk to them, like, what are they telling us?
Speaker B:They're not sitting and looking to draw that turmoil or that discomfort out of us.
Speaker B:They're busy, they've got things going on.
Speaker B:Like, here, Donnie, have a cookie, go watch tv.
Speaker B:Like they send me into the electronic babysitter.
Speaker B:Right, Yep.
Speaker B:With the cookie.
Speaker B:And they bypass that in recent years because they've got these little built in babysitters and these devices right here that they hand their kids.
Speaker B:And so their kids are not taxing them.
Speaker B:And you know, it's horrible to even use a term like that.
Speaker B:Their kids are not taxing them.
Speaker B:Yeah, but, but the parents are typically at home.
Speaker B:They're still caught up in the office.
Speaker B:Like, we don't ever get a chance to get away.
Speaker B:They're always plugged in.
Speaker B:Like, and you know, I'm mindful, I'm aware of that and I'm mindful of just how trapped we get.
Speaker B:And I'll sometimes leave the house because I'm heading to a meeting at a Starbucks and I panic if I realized that I left my phone at home.
Speaker B:How many people ever leave their home without their phone?
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Because they become our life and not for communication.
Speaker B:I think often the technology replaces this sense of value that we're searching for.
Speaker B:Like, as long as someone's sending me a message or someone's trying to get a hold of me or someone's buzzing me, I have worth.
Speaker B:And I don't think it really equates to that yet that's the emotion that we experience.
Speaker B:Those are the things we feel.
Speaker B:And my kids like, I'll phone because I'm in the boomer era, right?
Speaker B:I'm not intimidated by a phone.
Speaker B:So because I.
Speaker B:I want.
Speaker B:I want the elements that come along with it.
Speaker B:I want the intonation.
Speaker B:I want the warmth of a voice.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:I want to be able to ask questions for clarity instantly.
Speaker B:If they say something and I'm.
Speaker B:I'm unsure.
Speaker B:We don't get that with the digital realm, right?
Speaker B:So they'll wait.
Speaker B:They won't pick up the phone, but I'll get a text message as soon as I.
Speaker B:I hang up, saying, don't you want that?
Speaker B:Like, I.
Speaker B:You know, it's beyond me.
Speaker B:And I'm a conversationalist, so you think my kids would be in that same place, but no, like kids, no different than anybody else.
Speaker B:It's condition.
Speaker A:Never messaged them back and just said, I wanted to talk.
Speaker B:Yeah, I want to hear your voice.
Speaker B:It's interesting because I'm working through a couple of things with my kids on that front.
Speaker B:And this came from another video great friend of mine who's done this with his kids.
Speaker B:But, you know, Covid introduced some really messy divisional situations in a lot of families and a lot of friendships with, you know, the different camps and the different sides and the different choosings and, you know, how cruel the algorithms were, and feeding people with more of what they were looking for, you know, not answering questions, just feeding what they were looking for.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:And we know what it's all backed by, but there's incredible division discomfort, emotional discomfort that's taken place on so many fronts in families.
Speaker B:And so I'm trying to work through a process where I can ask my kids for 1, 100 of their time.
Speaker B:Like, there's 24 hours in a day.
Speaker B:I want 2 minutes and 40 seconds of their day just for me to hear their voice and say, hey, I'm good, dad.
Speaker B:Like, everything is okay.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:Thank you, baby.
Speaker B:Just wanted to say I love you and let it go at that.
Speaker B:But even that, like, give me 2 minutes and 40 seconds of your time.
Speaker B:And they're wrapped up.
Speaker B:Like, they've got other things on the go.
Speaker B:They're being pulled to and fro by people in this digital realm, and there's no conversation.
Speaker B:Like, if you sit in a room with a bunch of people and don't say anything, Everybody's good with that.
Speaker B:I can't walk into a room where anybody else is sitting and not open my mouth and want to chat.
Speaker B:And, you know, it's just the nature of the beast.
Speaker B:But it's because I value conversation so much.
Speaker B:I value exchange.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And that's the, I think that's where our strong connection comes from.
Speaker A:That, from two realms, I think from being willing to talk and talk about difficult things, but also the importance of that face to face element.
Speaker A:I think that's probably.
Speaker A:Plus we like talking about hamstrings and things like that.
Speaker A:But, but yeah, there's, there's the fun element to it as well.
Speaker A:But yeah, it's just, I just find this phone like this is someone that worked in technology that the phone was such a, it's such a trick in life.
Speaker A:Simon Sinek is probably one of the best that talks about the telephone as we have it today, how it's the dopamine fix, the, the ping that someone wants you and that's, I think it's got to that stage for kids, adults.
Speaker A:Like for instance, if I go into a meeting anyway, the phone is left in the car.
Speaker A:I, I, I still run with that.
Speaker A:Even when I was working for Lexmark, we're going into meetings, the phone was always left in the car.
Speaker A:I always have this belief that if someone's given you the time to spend time with them, there's nothing more important than that time.
Speaker A:And yeah, I think we've lost that little bit as well.
Speaker A:But now we're going to get to one of those tough topics that people don't like to talk about and that is in having in mind that we're talking about digital world and everything.
Speaker A:How do people now create the space for vulnerability on a digital platform?
Speaker B:That's an interesting question because I'd want to define what vulnerability is when it comes to a digital platform.
Speaker A:Well, my, well, coming from where I come from, mine is to help someone break down that barrier of hiding, whether it doesn't matter whether it's a relationship issue, a mental illness issue, health issue or whatever.
Speaker A:We can, we can just as I said earlier, we can just keep on saying everything's fine, but how do we get that next step when 90% of us as your kids do you ring to see how they are from a listening point of view because you can tell in a voice how someone is as well to all they want to do is text.
Speaker A:So how do we make that?
Speaker A:I suppose it's that shift to get people to be vulnerable again in any facet of conversation.
Speaker B:Well, I think it's difficult to get people to be vulnerable regardless of what platform face to face.
Speaker B:It's difficult for people to get, we've been conditioned all of our lives cannot feel, cannot express vulnerability.
Speaker B:It's misunderstood.
Speaker B:You know, vulnerability touches on the authentic of who we are.
Speaker B:On the authentic who we are.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like, so, you know, people.
Speaker B:People want to talk about vulnerability.
Speaker B:They want to listen about vulnerability.
Speaker B:They don't want to talk about it.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:And from my perspective, being vulnerable is nothing more than the willingness to be offended.
Speaker B:And that's where the real challenge lies.
Speaker B:Most people don't feel like they can show up authentically.
Speaker B:Most people don't like who they believe they are authentically.
Speaker B:And how do you break that barrier?
Speaker B:You can't do it over text, that's for sure.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:And it's difficult over a phone because people can match, often in order to bring vulnerability to the surface.
Speaker B:Like in the profession I really kind of become passionate about in grief and loss, our key to vulnerability is the courage to go first.
Speaker B:So when we can show up and we can talk about our vulnerability, we can talk about how we feel.
Speaker B:Our authentic feelings, you know, as broken as they can be and as difficult as they often are, that creates a safe space for the other person we're in conversation with.
Speaker B:But again, like, it's to drive it to a platform where we can exchange visual signals as well, you know, because they just speak such a.
Speaker B:A huge message.
Speaker B:So, you know, if.
Speaker B:If how do you crack that code one and you.
Speaker B:You having the willingness and.
Speaker B:And the courage to go first for you to fill up authentically.
Speaker A:Yeah, and that's the.
Speaker A:That's the thing.
Speaker A:When you see it happen, it's like a light comes off the person.
Speaker A:It's that it's rewarding for both people.
Speaker A:I think.
Speaker B:It'S rewarding for the listener if that's what you set out to hear.
Speaker B:And it's rewarding for the recipient the other end of the conversation, because for the first time in maybe a long time or ever, in.
Speaker B:In some cases, they don't feel so alone anymore.
Speaker A:Yeah, and that's the.
Speaker A:The big thing, you know, Like, I just listening to the two words that you use.
Speaker A:They're vulnerable and authentic.
Speaker A:It's like in sport where they use champion and legend, it's thrown around a lot, but no one really does anything about it.
Speaker A:We can use the terms, um, you know, like, if you have a look at things on YouTube, people say, oh, you got to be your authentic self and everything like that.
Speaker A:But if you don't know what your authentic self is, how can you be authentic?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I think that's the cue that.
Speaker B:That's the power of going first.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Being an example.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Because seriously, we've been conditioned all of our lives to stay away from that.
Speaker B:Like any feeling whether.
Speaker B:Whether it be good or whether it be bad.
Speaker B:Like the bad we want a mask and we don't want to experience.
Speaker B:And the good, often under this underlying.
Speaker B:Well, this won't last.
Speaker B:So you don't want to connect to it because someone's going to want to pull that rug out from under your feet.
Speaker B:And, you know, we sit in these places and we suffer in solvents.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I think it's trying to.
Speaker A:What's the expression used about being comfortable with the uncomfortable.
Speaker B:Uncomfortable and uncomfortable situation?
Speaker A:That's the one.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And that's, you know, that's.
Speaker A:To me, like, you know, like the turning point for me was back when I did that original video where I spoke about the suicide attempt and everything like that, and it just stripped back.
Speaker A:I thought, no, I've got to talk.
Speaker A:Talk this out.
Speaker A:And I didn't want to put Jane or any of the family through because they.
Speaker A:They lived the.
Speaker A:The bad side of what happened.
Speaker A:So I thought, well, do a video and, you know, talk to someone on the other side that may resonate and then.
Speaker A:And that's that being first that you talk about.
Speaker A:And I think one of the other areas was practical ways to connect with loved ones.
Speaker A:And I think if you're.
Speaker A:This is just me and the experience I had.
Speaker A:If you are struggling and you're feeling frustrated, talk to your phone, but you gotta publish it.
Speaker A:And then people don't just talk to your phone.
Speaker A:This is where you can use digital to be.
Speaker A:Talk to your phone and put it somewhere.
Speaker A:Not for the comments or not for that.
Speaker A:You've got it off your chest and you've shared it with somewhere.
Speaker A:And that was the big step for me where the final step for me to really, really get on the right track was to share it somewhere.
Speaker A:Like, we spoke about it a fair bit, but that day where I just went, bang, posted it, I didn't know whether I was going to post it and I thought, no, bugger it up she goes.
Speaker B:The courage to go first, Right?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And you don't know how many lives that one published put changes like.
Speaker B:We.
Speaker B:We just don't know.
Speaker B:But I know one thing.
Speaker B:If we don't push the publish, it doesn't change anything.
Speaker A:No, and that's.
Speaker A:I think this is.
Speaker A:I know it's my philosophy.
Speaker A:We think if I can help one person with a video, I've succeeded.
Speaker A:That's not a million million subscribers.
Speaker A:It's not A million views.
Speaker A:I just want one view that counts.
Speaker A:And that's the, that's the.
Speaker A:I suppose that's the beauty of the digital world today that we can, we can share and hopefully help that one person or spark a thought or spark an action or give him that chance to take that first step.
Speaker A:That's where I see the digital world and I think that's where.
Speaker A:I think that's where the big benefit of it is now.
Speaker A:But be interesting to see what you think about the.
Speaker B:Well, you know, like there's, there, there's the, the elements of pushing something out into the digital realm through a publish button or you know, like a video that we upload to a specific platform.
Speaker B:Difficult for us to do anonymously, but our, our faces out there and yeah, there is an incredible weight that's lifted.
Speaker B:But when you do that exact same thing with an invite for people to reach out to you, it, it changes the dynamic.
Speaker B:Because now what are you looking to do?
Speaker B:Now you're looking to start a conversation.
Speaker B:And now we're back to the topic that this all kind of stems around, you know, the value of conversation.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And that's the, you know, like, yeah, it's a, it's a circle, definitely a circle that you got to come back to.
Speaker A:And um, then the, the strength of conversation is that you have it with another person.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's bi, directional, right?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like we can get on YouTube and we can, we, we can take information in, but there's something magical that happens when we're on with another individual and we can exchange ideas.
Speaker B:And you know, I can go and sit in all kinds of lectures.
Speaker B:I can find information on just about any topic I have an interest in.
Speaker B:But there's something incredible that happens when you get on a platform like this or sit across someone in a coffee shop or, and and you actually begin to exchange ideas because then the ideas are made up of values and you know, like it, it's magical.
Speaker B:It's magical.
Speaker B:I, I'm, I network for a living and there's an entity and in the industry who trains people on how to really be successful in this.
Speaker B:And he made a statement very well late last year and talked about the biggest challenge that the networking industry.
Speaker B:So like this is made up of consultants, this is made up of marketers, this is made up of trainers, teachers, affiliates, and in that entire world, like world of direct selling.
Speaker B:And he talked about the industry facing the biggest challenge it's ever been faced with and that was lack of conversation.
Speaker B:And so, you know, I think this is a timely episode for you to be putting out there and serving your community with.
Speaker B:Because it's true, like, we've been robbed of the ability in a lot of cases, but the desire too, because we live in these little isolated pods constantly and we feel safe and we get the buzzers, we get the dings, we get the bings and those are the dopamine.
Speaker B:Those are the things where we feel like, oh, someone needs me, someone wants me, someone likes me.
Speaker B:When we get trapped.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And that's, I suppose that answers.
Speaker A:The practical ways to reconnect with loved ones is that.
Speaker A:Answer when someone rings.
Speaker A:Answer.
Speaker A:There's technology there that, you know, with a press of a button, you can have a video call.
Speaker A:It just doesn't have to be voiced.
Speaker A:That's probably the big step from the corded phone to mobile phones that you can actually see one another, to have a phone conversation.
Speaker A:And don't put off going to a coffee shop with someone.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:So I got to drop this as a bit of a challenge for people when you.
Speaker A:When you're there, next time you go for the coffee with friends, don't take your phone.
Speaker B:That's a good challenge, Pete.
Speaker A:Don't take your phone.
Speaker A:And if you get there and they've got the phone, say, can you please go and put it back in the car?
Speaker B:Or turn it off.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Or turn it.
Speaker A:Turn it right off.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because then it's undivided attention.
Speaker A:It's just the two of you talking.
Speaker A:And I think we have to get back to that, where we're not sitting there chatting to someone and it's the two thumbs and a finger flicking across and that and going, oh, yeah, oh, yeah.
Speaker B:Or your phone sitting on.
Speaker B:On the coffee table, constantly lighting up and you're reaching over and, like, just, you know, setting it down and setting it down, like.
Speaker B:Or looking over to check to see who it is.
Speaker B:Like, oh, if it's somebody more important than who I'm here having coffee with, I'm going to take this call like, yeah.
Speaker A:I've got encouraged now that if I'm with someone and I'm chatting to them and the phone rings and they say, I've got to take this call.
Speaker A:I've got enough courage now to turn around and say, no, you don't.
Speaker A:You got message bank, you know, I'm with you.
Speaker A:They can hear that you're busy.
Speaker B:That's always like.
Speaker B:That's always touchy.
Speaker B:I've gone into meetings, I've gone out for meetings where just the nature of my work.
Speaker B:I'M expecting call to connect.
Speaker B:Because in some instances, Pete, for what I do, that's life and death.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:But I'll let them know when I'm walking in.
Speaker B:You know, the nature of my work.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I have a call that I may have to field while we're here.
Speaker B:Are you okay with that?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And that's a polite way, you know, that comes back from maturity, understanding, whole gamut of things.
Speaker A:But it's, you know, to me, it's probably one of the most important topics that we can talk about at the moment.
Speaker A:Meaningful conversations, how we do it.
Speaker A:But if you're going to give one tip to people about a meaningful conversation, what would it be?
Speaker B:Leverage every conversation that you have an opportunity to be involved in, to hone your listening skill, to hear what people are maybe not saying as opposed to what they are.
Speaker B:And don't be afraid to probe, to deepen the value of the conversations that could be being held as opposed to one that might be being held.
Speaker A:That's an excellent point.
Speaker A:There's a famous cricketer, he passed away, unfortunately, Shane Ward, he had the skill of that.
Speaker A:You know, he'd walk up to you and he was another one.
Speaker A:Hey, Georgie, how you going?
Speaker A:And you go, oh, yeah, not too bad.
Speaker A:And he goes, really?
Speaker A:He just look at you and go, really?
Speaker A:And you go, no, not really.
Speaker A:I made you think.
Speaker A:And that's, I think, the, the big thing.
Speaker B:Absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker B:So you have been to listen.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I know you're a very, very busy man and you got a couple of anxious friends waiting beside you and it is winter in Canada, but, yeah.
Speaker A:Once again, thanks heaps for your time.
Speaker A:Your wisdom is second to none.
Speaker A:Your understanding of life and the ups and downs of it and, you know, some of the ups and downs.
Speaker A:If you go back and watch the interview that I did with Don a couple of years ago where we talk about our, our weaker moments, shall we say?
Speaker A:That's a.
Speaker A:Another episode to watch.
Speaker A:It's there on the, the channel.
Speaker A:But, yeah, no, once again, really, really appreciate it.
Speaker A:I just cherish these conversations because you share so much and, you know, you learn so much like I've learned all the time from you, and I just really, really appreciate it.
Speaker B:You're welcome, Pete.
Speaker B:You know, like I, I always welcome the call with you because there's always value exchange.
Speaker B:Like, you know, I, I get as much like I.
Speaker B:When, when I'm in conversation with you and, and we really get into it, we're talking about, like, difficult things, which is often the case.
Speaker B:I experience the undeniable Universal law of reciprocity.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it's, it is good.
Speaker A:I will give a little bit of a, an insight to when we have a conversation, if that's okay.
Speaker A:Don't be there.
Speaker A:And I'm starting to listen and I can hear where the conversation's gotta go.
Speaker A:And I have a little deck and I hit record because I know there's gonna be some absolute gems that I've gotta use somewhere down the track.
Speaker A:And don't say, you should have recorded that.
Speaker A:And I'll turn around him and say, I have.
Speaker A:And yeah, so that's the, that's the beauty.
Speaker A:You know, we can, we can record, we can do these sort of things and share and, and you know, the world is a smaller place these days, but unfortunately a lot of people are making it too big and.
Speaker A:But yeah, so thank you.
Speaker A:Where can people connect with you?
Speaker A:What's the best.
Speaker B:We're going to go to bblachance.com.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:Which is like, there's a link to my bio there and, and the work I do on the grief and loss front, they can do that.
Speaker B:That's probably the best way because there's a field there for them to leave me a message and a number.
Speaker B:And here's one thing I can guarantee them, they leave me a number I'm going to be calling.
Speaker B:So pick up to have that conversation.
Speaker B:Yeah, but it's difficult in this day and age, right, like, because I, I get so much.
Speaker B:If I don't have a number in my phone that tells me that this is someone I know, I won't because of all these auto dialers and everything else that's out there.
Speaker B:Like, I just send a lot of stuff, like directly to voicemail.
Speaker B:So if that happens, if you do call me, leave a voicemail and I will get to you.
Speaker A:Or the other way.
Speaker A:I've learned through a role that I do full time send a text first and just say, hey, it's done here, you've left a message on the website.
Speaker A:I'm calling you in five minutes.
Speaker A:Yeah, and that's the other way around it.
Speaker A:But yeah, all right, mate, that's it.
Speaker B:Well, all right.
Speaker A:Thank you very much.
Speaker B:You're welcome, man.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker A:Don't get too cold over there.
Speaker B:We'll talk to you soon.
Speaker A:Okay, mate, bye.
Speaker B:Okay, bye now.
